Slow Art Day – host training call

Tonight we had our first host training call for Slow Art Day 2011.

Listen or download here

We heard from the hosts on the call about how they are promoting their event, how they are choosing their art and how they are communicating to their attendees.

After the page break below, you can read the notes from the call.

Continue Reading →

10. March 2011 by Phil Terry
Categories: Uncategorized | Tags: , , | Comments Off on Slow Art Day – host training call

Pompeii exhibit at The Discovery Center in NYC

For those of you who weren’t on the call before we started, I mentioned I had gone to see the Pompeii exhibit at the Discovery Center in NYC on Sunday.  It was very interesting on its own, but also because some of the frescoes and artifacts dated from the 5th century BC (the time we are reading about now in Herodotus).

If you are in the NYC area or are traveling there through September 5, I highly recommend the exhibit.

Link to the Discovery Center:

http://www.discoverytsx.com/

Review of the exhibit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/arts/design/04vesuvius.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&src=dayp

Regards,

Nan

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can you post this up on the blog?

Begin forwarded message:


From: Nan Okarma <nanmar@comcast.net>
Date: March 8, 2011 1:00:39 PM EST
To: Andre Stipanovic <astipanovic@mail.hockaday.org>
Subject: [Herodotus2010] Pompeii exhibit at The Discovery Center in NYC

For those of you who weren’t on the call before we started, I mentioned I had gone to see the Pompeii exhibit at the Discovery Center in NYC on Sunday.  It was very interesting on its own, but also because some of the frescoes and artifacts dated from the 5th century BC (the time we are reading about now in Herodotus).

If you are in the NYC area or are traveling there through September 5, I highly recommend the exhibit.

Link to the Discovery Center:

http://www.discoverytsx.com/

Review of the exhibit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/arts/design/04vesuvius.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&src=dayp

Regards,

Nan

_______________________________________________
Herodotus2010 mailing list
Herodotus2010@readingodyssey.org
http://readingodyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/herodotus2010_readingodyssey.org

09. March 2011 by astipanovic
Categories: Classics-General | Comments Off on Pompeii exhibit at The Discovery Center in NYC

Herodotus Discussion Questions for Books 8 & 9

Hi fellow readers,
Here are the discussion questions for the final two books of Herodotus.  Enjoy the read and blog your thoughts or email the group with your questions.
Sincerely,
Andre

1.  In Book 8.40-65, Herodotus narrates the momentous conference of Greek leaders as they debate whether to fight the Persians at sea near Salamis, or to defend the Peloponnese by at the Isthmus of Corinth, a natural defense.  Has Herodotus embellished the decision to fight at Salamis in view of the victory?  Was it the best decision even if the Greeks had lost?  Was it really the only option for the Greeks at this point?

2.  Given Xerxes’ stubbornness and dedication to invading Greece, what are some of the factors that lead to his personal withdrawal from the war after the battle of Salamis (book 8)?  What other options should he have considered?

3.  In one of the most astounding reversals in military history, the Battle of Plataea (book 9) resulted in a resounding Greek victory.  What is the interplay between Athens and Sparta in the events leading up to this battle?  How had the battle affected relations afterwards between Athens and Sparta?  What can Herodotus tell us about the Greek city-states in general at this time before his Histories abruptly end?

09. March 2011 by astipanovic
Categories: Herodotus, Study Questions | Comments Off on Herodotus Discussion Questions for Books 8 & 9

Herodotus Book 7 Discussion

Here’s the audio recording for the Herodotus Book 7 call.  Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your ipod.

08. March 2011 by astipanovic
Categories: Herodotus, Reader Call | Comments Off on Herodotus Book 7 Discussion

Herodotus Book 7 Reader Call, March 7, 2011

Here is the recording of tonight’s Herodotus Book 7 discussion, moderated by Bruce Upbin. Please feel free to download it and listen to it at your own leisure.

08. March 2011 by Arrian
Categories: Herodotus, Reader Call | Tags: , , | Comments Off on Herodotus Book 7 Reader Call, March 7, 2011

Herodotus Book 7 tonight

The Reading Odyssey’s global Herodotus groups meet tonight via conference call to discuss Book 7. 

Discussion & Study Guide Questions

Question #1

The decision for the Persians to invade Greece is a highly significant one.  Starting in Book 7, chapter 8, what are Xerxes’ reasons for doing so?  Are they based on national security?  personal revenge?  tradition?  anything else?

After Xerxes’ dreams convince the Persians to invade, does that make Mardonios’ reasons any stronger?  Why or why not?

Question #2   

In chapters 27-29, Pythios voluntarily offers Xerxes a great amount of resources to help the war effort.  Xerxes appreciates the offer, but becomes angry at Pythios soon after (38-39).  Is Xerxes justified in doing so?  Does this story, which surrounds Xerxes’ order to ‘punish’ the Hellespont, show Xerxes’ madness?  wisdom?

Question #3

The Ancient Greeks believed that “hubris” or ‘overweening pride’ would lead to a just punishment from the gods.  In which instances in Book 7, does Herodotus show Xerxes’ “hubris?”  In which instances is Xerxes prudent?  How does Xerxes compare with his predecessor Darius in balancing “hubris” with prudence?

Question #4

Before the crossing of the Hellespont, Xerxes and Artabanos have a dialogue that begins with the ‘shortness of human life’ (chs. 46-52).  Both Xerxes and Artabanos have differing views on this and on the coming invasion of Greece.  How does Xerxes justify his position vis-a-vis Artabanos?  Given the situation and regardless of the outcome, do either Xerxes or Artabanos have the stronger argument?

Question #5

Given Xerxes’ decision to allow the three captured Greek spies to see his whole Persian force (ch. 147), what is Xerxes’ strategy as he approaches Thermopylae?  Even with the exiled Spartan king Demaratos’ advice, what does Xerxes nevertheless cling to as his military advantange?  What advantage to the Greeks is Xerxes constantly overlooking?  Why?

Question #6

The Delphic oracle predicted for the Spartans that “either their city must be laid waste by the foreigner or a Spartan king be killed” (ch. 220).  Was this the main reason Leonidas decided to remain at Thermopylae?  What other reasons are there?  Was the battle of Thermopylae militarily significant or merely symbolic?

Question #7

What are your favorite stories from Book 7?  Which, if any, have you heard about before in movies, books or popular media?

 

 

 

07. March 2011 by Phil Terry
Categories: Herodotus, Study Questions | Tags: , , , , , , , | Comments Off on Herodotus Book 7 tonight

‘The most thrilling volume’

The Landmark Arrian – The Campaigns of Alexander, just received a most positive review in the Sunday New York Times Book Review.

“The Landmark Arrian” the most thrilling volume in this fine series.

Edited by Reading Odyssey friend, Professor James Romm, with an introduction by Reading Odyssey Board member and A.G. Leventis Chair of Greek Culture at Cambridge University, Professor Paul Cartledge, The Landmark Arrian is the next book in our reading group series.

Global reading groups for the Landmark Arrian begin in April 2011 (info and free registration

Read the review, get the book and join our reading group!

screen_shot_2011-02-28_at_11-58-55_am-scaled500

Paths of Glory
New York Times Book Review
Sunday, February 27, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/books/review/Coates-t.html?_r=1&nl=book…

28. February 2011 by Phil Terry
Categories: Arrian-Alexander, Commentary | Tags: , , , , , | Comments Off on ‘The most thrilling volume’

Alexander the Great Discussion Series Part 8

What caused Alexander's Death?

JAMES ROMM Paul, on the question of the cause of Alexander's death, there is a 2,000-plus year debate between poisoning theorists and medical diagnosticians, still going on today. Both Plutarch and Arrian believed that Alexander died of a disease, and Plutarch rather brusquely rejected the idea that he was poisoned. However Justin (the summarizer of Pompeius Trogus) emphatically supports that idea, and we know from other evidence it was prevalent in the years just after Alexander's death. Greek writers even claimed to know "whodunnit" — most of them pointed fingers at Antipater, Alexander's viceroy in Macedonia, and his son Cassander. Just recently, a third theory has entered the arena, that Alexander died from a maladministration of hellebore, a medicine that, if given in too large a dose, could also be a toxin. Do you think there is enough evidence to ever resolve this question — barring recovery of Alexander's mummified corpse?

PAUL CARTLEDGE Call me an old sceptic, Jamie, but somehow poison has to me much more of a Roman than a Greek ring to it, and it's a fact that all our surviving narrative and other accounts of Alexander come from what's usually called the Roman period (1st century BCE to end of the 3rd CE). Obviously, the Greeks knew enough about poisons to concoct a fatal dose of hemlock for Socrates, but the killing of a king or emperor secretly by poison is an almost hackneyed theme from Mithridates King of Pontus to Roman Emperor Commodus, so I'd need pretty good objective evidence to convince myself that Alexander too met his end that way. But unless we can find his mummy, as you say, we're not going to nail his cause of death via DNA. Instead, I'd like to hear your reaction to a couple of the more recent – and imaginative – theories. One is supposedly impersonal and medical: West Nile Virus encephalitis. The other is a rather startling spin on the old Cassander theory – that what killed Alexander was bacterium-ridden water drawn from the River Styx in Arcadia (Peloponnese) brought to Alexander in Babylon by Cassander – in a mule's hoof.

JR I'm familiar with Adrienne Mayor's intriguing theory about the presence of poisonous bacteria in the river Styx, but we should note that Mayor does not claim to explain Alexander's death with it. She's primarily interested in the origin of the legends about the Styx — said by the Greeks to stupefy even the gods — than in identifying the cause of Alexander's demise. As to the West Nile Virus theory, I understand it is connected with a phenomenon of mass bird deaths that was noticed in the area of Babylon in the Spring of 323, which seems to me a slender thread of evidence. The problem with all disease-based explanations is that they rely on diagnoses of Alexander's symptoms, but these are reported very differently by our different sources. The only point on which the sources agree is that Alexander became paralyzed in his last days, which of course could be the result of almost any disease or toxin, but there does seem to be an especially close link to the effects of hellebore — at least, in the view of toxicologist Leo Schep. So let me bring you back to the hellebore theory for a moment, and press you to say what you think of it? I see that Richard Stoneman, a well-regarded historian, has given it credence.

PC Richard Stoneman is indeed a well-regarded Alexander historian, especially stro
ng on the posthumous Alexander legends and fantasies, and Leo Scheps I would judge to be an equally well regarded toxicologist, but the Atlantic Productions documentary of 2003 in which his theory was exploited seemed to me one of the worst kinds of sensational treatments of Alexander's death. A senior ex-policeman was hired to host the show, as if he were carrying out a non-medical coroner's autopsy, in a sort of parody of a (living) 'reality' programme.  To me the main problem with any such pseudo- or quasi-scientific approach is that, as you say, Alexander's terminal symptoms are very differently described by the extant sources – which are we to believe? So, I tend to restrict my own enquiries to a simple dichotomy – murder or death by 'natural' causes, and I tend to think that by June 323 Alexander's body had taken so much (non-legal) punishment over so many years that it was a bit of a miracle he was still alive rather than that he should have died so relatively 'young' at 32 going on 33. Not that there weren't members of his immediate entourage who weren't all that sorry that he should have died when and where he did, and some of whom would not have scrupled at resorting to poison or whatever – you'll know their names …

JR I too prefer clean dichotomies, but the old poison/illness argument has been getting more complicated lately. I refer not only to the hellebore thesis but to an intriguing 2009 Acta Classica article by John Atkinson, "Malaria and mind-games?" The article rehearses all the theories as to what killed Alexander and adds a new one: After the king became ill, his inner circle pushed him toward death by withholding treatment and robbing Alexander of his will to live. It's speculative, but Atkinson is an expert who has the right to speculate. His assumption, also the assumption of Brian Bosworth in an influential 1973 article, is that Alexander's top generals wanted their king dead, as that was the only way they could stop the now-endless campaign of conquest. I'm opposed to that view myself, but impressed at how much traction it has gained.

PC You are quite right about the traction, Jamie – and if we may refer to the broadest of mass media circulation, it's a version of it that is expressed by Oliver Stone's narrator Ptolemy (Anthony Hopkins) in his controversial movie *Alexander* (on which I co-edited a volume of academic 'Responses' published by the University of Wisconsin Press in 2010: http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2010/2010-07-14.html)

JR Well, on that note, let me announce that our blog will include Oliver Stone himself as a participant, for its last two installments — starting in March, after a week's hiatus.

19. February 2011 by calanus2
Categories: Arrian-Alexander, Lecture | Comments Off on Alexander the Great Discussion Series Part 8

Herodotus Book 7 Discussion Questions

Dear fellow Herodotus readers,
Please feel free to use these questions to guide you through your reading.  We will use these questions as jump-off points for our next discussion scheduled for Mon March 7, 2011.
Sincerely,
Andre Stipanovic

Question #1
The decision for the Persians to invade Greece is a highly significant one.  Starting in Book 7, chapter 8, what are Xerxes’ reasons for doing so?  Are they based on national security?  personal revenge?  tradition?  anything else?
After Xerxes’ dreams convince the Persians to invade, does that make Mardonios’ reasons any stronger?  Why or why not?

Question #2   
In chapters 27-29, Pythios voluntarily offers Xerxes a great amount of resources to help the war effort.  Xerxes appreciates the offer, but becomes angry at Pythios soon after (38-39).  Is Xerxes justified in doing so?  Does this story, which surrounds Xerxes’ order to ‘punish’ the Hellespont, show Xerxes’ madness?  wisdom?

Question #3
The Ancient Greeks believed that “hubris” or ‘overweening pride’ would lead to a just punishment from the gods.  In which instances in Book 7, does Herodotus show Xerxes’ “hubris?”  In which instances is Xerxes prudent?  How does Xerxes compare with his predecessor Darius in balancing “hubris” with prudence?

Question #4
Before the crossing of the Hellespont, Xerxes and Artabanos have a dialogue that begins with the ‘shortness of human life’ (chs. 46-52).  Both Xerxes and Artabanos have differing views on this and on the coming invasion of Greece.  How does Xerxes justify his position vis-a-vis Artabanos?  Given the situation and regardless of the outcome, do either Xerxes or Artabanos have the stronger argument?

Question #5
Given Xerxes’ decision to allow the three captured Greek spies to see his whole Persian force (ch. 147), what is Xerxes’ strategy as he approaches Thermopylae?  Even with the exiled Spartan king Demaratos’ advice, what does Xerxes nevertheless cling to as his military advantange?  What advantage to the Greeks is Xerxes constantly overlooking?  Why?

Question #6
The Delphic oracle predicted for the Spartans that “either their city must be laid waste by the foreigner or a Spartan king be killed” (ch. 220).  Was this the main reason Leonidas decided to remain at Thermopylae?  What other reasons are there?  Was the battle of Thermopylae militarily significant or merely symbolic?

Question #7
What are your favorite stories from Book 7?  Which, if any, have you heard about before in movies, books or popular media?

10. February 2011 by astipanovic
Categories: Herodotus, Study Questions | Comments Off on Herodotus Book 7 Discussion Questions

Alexander the Great Discussion Series Part 8

What was Alexander's sexual orientation?

36_Rotari_Ptg_Alexander_the_Great_and_Roxanne

PAUL CARTLEDGE Jamie, one aspect of Alexander's life that still arouses huge controversy is what nowadays we'd call his sexuality or sexual identity. I remember that a rather conservative Greek lawyer, convinced that his ancient Greek hero must have been as red-bloodedly heterosexual as he, actually threatened to bring an injunction against Oliver Stone's movie for portraying Alexander as engaging in sex with males. Personally, I think any attempt to categorise Alexander in terms of modern sexual identity is grossly anachronistic, but am I not right that Alexander probably did have sex with at least one male as well as with at least two females?

JAMES ROMM Well, I'm not sure whom you mean by the one male — Bagoas or Hephaestion? I'm guessing the former as the evidence for a sexual relationship is firmer than in the case of Hephaestion (where there is no real evidence, but plenty of assumptions). Even in the case of Bagoas — a eunuch given to Alexander as (dare I say it?) a boy toy by a Persian noble who wished to win his favor — there is some room for doubt, though I would venture to say he "counts" as a male object of Alexander's sexual interest. As far as the women are concerned, I'd say two is a conservative count, assuming you mean the two women who bore Alexander's children — Barsine, the half-Persian widow of the mercenary captain Memnon, and Rhoxane, Alexander's first wife. But then, wouldn't you say that Alexander's marriages to Parysatis and Stateira, the second and third of his multiple wives, were also consummated (though how he pulled off the trick of a double wedding night, after wedding both women at the mass marriage ceremony in Susa in 324, is anyone's guess)?

PC That was a bit of a teaser, I confess – but you got my drift absolutely right, on both sides of the blanket as it were. The evidence for actual sex with Bagoas is firmer than that for anything physical with Hephaestion, who may have been more of a 'bosom buddy' as we (used to?) say than a sexual partner. I'll come back to Hephaestion. The relationship with Bagoas is simply extraordinary, isn't it? He was a non-Greek non-man (as the Greeks saw it) – we know from Herodotus that ordinary Greeks had a peculiar culturally driven horror of the trade in eunuchs: a Greek slave trader called Panionius (the 'all-Ionian'!) was into this business, which Herodotus condemned as 'unholy'. So Alexander, in having an openly acknowledged sexual relationship with him, would have been transgressing all sorts of cultural-political boundaries. I'm inclined to believe he did – and to admire him for it. As for Alexander's women, I'd also agree that two was a conservative estimate… even not counting the alleged one-night stand with an Amazon! But note again that three of those you mention were oriental – two noble Persian, one (Rhoxane) noble Sogdian, and one (Barsine) half-Persian – and note too that, as in the case of Bagoas, there was politics deeply er embedded with the sex.

JR Well as long as we're correcting the scoreboard, let me note briefly that the "one-night stand" you refer to was actually thirteen nights — Sex between a world conquering man (Alexander) and an Amazon woman (Thalestris) being presumably more long-lasting and sensational than any ordinary lovemaking. But Arrian and Plutarch both rightly dismissed the tale as a fiction. Speaking of which, I should note, for the benefit of readers of the new Landmark Arrian, that they will not find Bagoas mentioned anywhere in Arrian's narrative (OUR Bagoas, that is; a different Persian by the same name is mentioned in Book 2). The omission, together with the sensational nature of the stories told by Plutarch and the vulgate sources, prompted at least one modern historian (Sir William Tarn) to dismiss Bagoas as another fiction, as insubstantial as Thalestris. The evidence is carefully reviewed by Daniel Ogden in an article in the volume Alexander the Great: A New History (edd. Heckel and Tritle, 2009) — bearing out the title of the anthology by giving the first-ever in-depth discussion of Alexander's sex life, that I am aware of. Does anyone today still follow Tarn in questioning Bagoas' existence? And, to turn in a slightly different direction, what did you think of Oliver Stone's use of Bagoas, and treatment of Alexander's sexuality, in the film Alexander?

PC I stand corrected on Alexander's Amazonian congress (13 nights, precisely, not a 'one-night stand', of course) – though with these fabulous tales once can never quite be sure, can we? And I take Oliver Stone's Alexander movie to be one long fabulous tale, even though he tried to get the facts right, because the facts of Alexander's life annoyingly just won't stand up to be counted. In general, he took the Oxford ancient historian and Alexander-specialist Robin Lane Fox as his mentor and guide – but then his (Oliver's) romantic instincts got the better of him when his Alexander (played by Colin Farrell) descended on Babylon. Yet, to give Stone his due, he was prepared to take on the chin the welter of homophobic criticism he received for depicting his hero in close homoerotic encounter with the Persian eunuch. And not just with him. At the risk of upsetting Hephaestion's largely female fan-club (I mean the ancient personage Hephaestion, not his filmic avatar, Jared Leto) I'd say Stone was probably also right to imagine that Alexander had had sex with his boon companion Hephaestion, at any rate when they were younger. For ancient Greeks there was no contradiction between youthful homoeroticism and predominantly or wholly heterosexual adult proclivity and activity. It was 'all so unimaginably different' then, as Classicist poet Louis Macneice wrote in 1939, and 'all so long ago'. (Interested readers may care to consult further a book I co-edited with Fiona Greenland, *Responses to Oliver's Stone's Alexander* [University of Wisconsin Press, 2010])

JR Whatever he may have got right or wrong about Hephaestion, Stone took some very big liberties in making a jealous Rhoxane responsible for Hephaestion's death — an idea for which there is no evidence or even speculation in the ancient sources, to my knowledge, although there is a pictorial tradition in which Hephaestion looks on rather scornfully at the moment when Alexander first falls in love with Rhoxane (see the Rotari canvas pictured above).  It's curious that Rhoxane, who seems to have been a rather passive figure historically, has been turned into a Medea by some modern interpreters — a recent book even accuses her of murdering Alexander!  But that's looking ahead to our next blog topic, my current preoccupation: the theories about what caused Alexander's death.  

10. February 2011 by calanus2
Categories: Arrian-Alexander, Lecture | Comments Off on Alexander the Great Discussion Series Part 8

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