Herodotus Books 4 & 5 Audio Recording, Nov 11 2012
Here is the audio recording for the Herodotus reading group. Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your mp3 player.
Discussion Questions for Herodotus Books 4 & 5
Dear Herodotus Readers,
As you continue to read through The Histories, use these questions as benchmarks to keep you thinking critically through Books 4 & 5. Send any other questions you come up with out to us!
Andre
Books 4 & 5 Discussion Questions
1. Greek coastal colonies on the Black Sea and northern Aegean may have had substantial contact with the Scythians during and prior to Herodotus’ time. His account (4.1-82) shows similarities and differences between Greeks and Scythians. What similarites struck you as particularly significant? What differences?
2. As invaders, the Persians are considered a formidable foe. In Book IV, how does Darius carry out the declaration of war against the Scythians? What is Darius really after? How do the Scythians and their neighbors prepare for the Persian invasion? What might Herodotus be foreshadowing with respect to the eventual Persian invasion of Greece?
3. What is the reason for Persia to invade Scythia? Libya? What does Persia stand to gain by invading Lybia? To what extent are Greeks on both sides involved in this invasion?
4. Given that Ionians were willingly helping Darius in his invasion of Scythia in Book IV, what are the conditions that lead to their revolt in Book V? What contrast between Greece and Persia might Herodotus be trying to point out in 4.144 when Megabazos subjugates the Hellespont? At what point in either Book IV or Book V would you say the spark of animosity is lit between Greece and Persia?
5. What does Herodotus reveal about the state of Greek city-state politics in Book V, especially between Sparta and Athens? What role does democracy play in relations between Greek city-states? What dilemma does Sparta find itself in regarding democracy? What do other Greek city-states think about the rise of democracy in Athens?
6. In earlier books, Herodotus included different female types. Do you see a pattern so far in the book in how Herodotus represents women in his narrative?
7. What are your favorite stories, anecdotes or digressions from Books IV & V?
Herodotus Books 2 & 3 Audio Recording October 14, 2012
Here is the audio recording for the Herodotus reading group. Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your mp3 player.
Herodotus Book 1 audio recording September 12, 2012
Here is the audio recording for the Herodotus reading group. Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your mp3 player.
Look for the ‘history’
Dear fellow Herodotus readers,
Herodotus was not the first person to write about past events; he was not even the first Greek to write about past events. However, he seems to be the first to write “historia” (i.e. “researches”) that went beyond a particular Greek city-state and even incorporated events outside of the Greek world. My latest reading alongside our Herodotus book is called Persia and the Greeks written by A. R. Burn, in which he assesses Herodotus with the other written evidence we have from the 1st millenium B.C. period (i.e. Babylonian tablets, Old Testament etc.). Herodotus’ work still stands as a primary source.
As you read through Book I, note how Herodotus sifts through legend and myth and presents what we define now as history. His digressions are interesting and show that his audience still preferred traditional storytelling, while he also inserts a new historical narrative. We’ll talk more about this and Book I in general on Monday September 10 on our conference call. This week I will ask a few of you to take on a question (see below) to introduce to our discussion. It is just your observations and comments, no research needed.
In the meantime, send out your questions to the group. You might also want to start reading ahead in Book II (Egypt), just to take a bite out of our next reading for next month, since it is a sizable chunk.
Sincerely,
Andre Stipanovic
Book I
The role of prophecy is very prominent in these chapters.
1. What part does an oracle play in the story of Candaules and Gyges? How is a curse associated with it?
2. How does Croesus’ dream about his son Atys become prophetic? Why does Croesus accept Adrastus so warmly?
3. How does Croesus read the Delphic oracles? What is he not understanding and why? When does he understand Solon’s earlier words of advice to him?
4. In chapters I.95-106, how does the story of the first Median ruler set the example for Median rulers to follow? According to Herodotus, what common theme seems to characterize the line of Median kings up to and including Astyages?
(Kings of the Medes: Deiokes, Phraortes, Cyaxares, [Scythian occupation], Cyaxares regains authority, Astyages)
5. In chapters I. 107-130, how does Cyrus’ origin and upbringing compare to the line of Median kings before him? Why do you suppose Cyrus seems destined to attain supreme control over the Medes with his Persians? What main factors, according to Herodotus, contribute to this outcome?
6. As Persian armies under Cyrus’ command spread out through Asia Minor, they come into contact with various peoples, cities, and nations. How do negotiations with Ionia result? Why are the Ionian cities so vulnerable to Persian attack? What is so significant about the Sardis revolt and suppression? Why is it placed in the middle of the stories and events connected with Herodotus’ description of Ionia?
7. According to Herodotus in I. 177-200, what impresses him the most about Babylon? Why?
8. In the final chapters of Book I, Cyrus meets his match in Queen Tomyris. In this conflict, Croesus’ advice, a prophetic dream, and revenge all coincide in a decisive defeat for the Persians. How might the end of Cyrus relate to patterns of Mede and Persian rule evident throughout Book I?
9. What is your favorite story of Book I?
After Book I, here is a basic outline of The Histories, book by book. The first half of the Histories are very ethnographical and set the background for the second half, which focuses on the Greek – Persian conflicts that have become part of our culture.
Basic outline, book by book:
{Books I – IV are the background for the Greek-Persian conflict}
Book I – Croesus, Cyrus
Book II – Egypt
Book III – Cambyses, Darius
Book IV – Scythia, Cyrene
{Books V – IX are the details of the Greek-Persian conflict}
Book V – Ionian Revolt
Book VI – Marathon
Book VII – Thermopylae
Book VIII – Salamis
Book IX – Plataea
Homer’s Odyssey Books 17-24 audio recording July 16, 2012
Here’s the audio recording for Andre’s Odyssey group. Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your mp3 player.
Homer Odyssey Discussion Questions for Books 17-24
Hi Odyssey readers,
Here are the discussion questions for our next and final conference call on July 16. I look forward to discussing the conclusion of the Odyssey with you next month along with the three R’s: Revenge, Reconciliation, and Romance. Happy reading until then!
Andre
Study Guide Questions – Discussion #3
Books 17-24: Revenge
17-20 Odysseus and Telemachus return to the palace in imminent danger
1. Book 17 – Omens
As Odysseus first sets eyes on his own palace after 20 years, what are the ways that he is tested by Athena? ~How much restraint is Odysseus forced to show? ~Why? ~How do the two omens in Book 17 work with respect to each other (i.e. Theoclymenus’ prophecy and Telemachus’ sneeze)?
2. Book 18 – King of the Beggars
What does the fight between Irus and Odysseus symbolize/foretell? ~Book 18 can be said to be important for Amphinomus, one of the suitors. ~What part does he play in the rivalry between Odysseus and the rest of the suitors? ~Why is his part necessary to the story? ~Penelope’s timed appearance is significant here. ~How does it heighten the mounting tension of the story? ~How does Eurymachus’ quarrel with Odysseus at the end of Book 18 balance that of Odysseus’ fight with Irus at the beginning?
3. Book 19 – Tease
The reunion of Odysseus and Penelope is somewhat of a tease. ~How is Odysseus able to hold back his feelings? ~Is he testing Penelope? ~If so, why should he? ~Why is Penelope so steadfast against believing that Odysseus will come back?
4. Book 20 – Gods and Prophecies
For all of Odysseus’ cleverness and fortitude, he still requires encouragement to stick with his disguise until it is time for him to reveal himself. ~At what two points do the gods respond to him? ~How manifest are these divine responses to the situation at hand? ~What is Odysseus’ main concern in Book 20? ~What is Penelope’s? ~How do these two differ, yet overlap?
Books 21-24: The contest of the bow and ultimate revenge on the suitors
5. Book 21 – Contest of the Bow
With Athena prompting Penelope to announce the contest of the bow, the revenge on the suitors is set into motion. ~How much of this plan is Odysseus in control of? ~What is Penelope’s role in this overall plan? ~What is Telemachus’ role in the plan? ~Could the plan come together without Eumaeus’ or Philoetus’ help? ~According to the text of Book 21, in what parts does Athena actively instigate events?
6. Book 22 – Anger Unleashed
Although Odysseus’ anger is justified, shouldn’t he have taken Eurymachus’ offer for compensation after Antinous was killed? ~Wouldn’t that have made sense in light of the family feuds and revenge killings that are sure to follow? ~Why does Athena let Odysseus struggle in combat with the suitors for as long as she does? ~Why does she show the “aegis” when she does, thereby making the suitors flee (p. 345), but not sooner? ~In the midst of the killing, Leodes the soothsayer begs for mercy. ~Leodes was the first to try the bow on p. 326 and foresaw this calamity, but Odysseus still kills him anyway. ~Why? ~Phemius the bard also begs for mercy, but he and Medon the herald are spared. ~~Why? ~Are the punishments of the serving women and Melanthius just or too harsh?
7. Book 23 – Aftermath of Slaughter
Ironically, Penelope wakes up from a “sweet sleep” (line 17, p. 353). ~Why is she now, all of a sudden, blessed with a “sweet sleep”? ~Why does Penelope continue to hold back from believing that Odysseus has returned? ~If Odysseus himself hadn’t killed the suitors, as she says, then who does she believe has killed them? ~Why would this be frightening to her rather than happy? ~~How is Penelope finally convinced that this stranger is her husband? ~Penelope finally recognizes Odysseus as her long-lost husband and Homer uses a simile to describe the moment (p. 360). ~What does the simile show about the relationship between Penelope and Odysseus?
8. Book 24 – Shades and Judgment
Book 24 opens by recalling some of the shades in Hades we met in Book 11. ~Some commentators say that Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ conversation is out of place here. ~Is it or is it not? ~Why does Odysseus continue to put on a false front with his father, even after the suitors have been killed? ~~Eupeithes, Antinous’ father rouses up the Ithacans against Odysseus. ~~What sort of threat is posed to Odysseus and his family? ~Zeus makes an irrevocable judgment of the situation on Ithaca. ~How does Athena respond to what Zeus says? ~Why must Zeus throw a thunderbolt? ~What does the situation on Ithaca show about the Greeks in general? about the Greeks at Troy?
Homer’s Odyssey Books 9-16 audio recording June 4, 2012
Here’s the audio recording for Andre’s group. Listen online or download the mp3 file and listen to it as a podcast on your mp3 player.
Homer Odyssey Discussion Questions for Books 9-16
Hi Homer readers,
Here are the dates for our next two conference calls and discussion questions for our next call on June 4. I hope you are enjoying the reading as much as I am.
Sincerely,
Andre
Discussion #2 (Lombardo translation pp. 125-255)
Books 9- 16 Reconciliations
9-12 Odysseus’ wanderings, “reconciling” Poseidon’s curse
13-16 Odysseus’ return to his native land, “reconciling” with Telemachus
Study Guide Questions – Discussion #2
Books 9- 16 Reconciliations
9-12 Odysseus’ wanderings, “reconciling” Poseidon’s curse
1. Book 9 – wise leader?
Odysseus is often referred to as “wily, crafty and wise.” How wise of
a leader is he in the events of Book 9 concerning the Cicones (pp.
126-127), Lotus Eaters (127), and Cyclopes (128-140)? How much of
these hardships are Odysseus’ own fault? How much of these hardships
are pre-determined by prophecy?
2. Book 10 – crew morale?
In Book 10, morale among Odysseus’ crew continues to decline. How do
the events of Aeolus’ bag of winds (pp. 141-143), Laestrygonians
(143-145), and Circe (145-157) contribute to the decline in morale of
the crew? What do we learn about Odysseus’ leadership and his
cleverness? Just when Odysseus is able to rescue his crew from
Circe’s bewitchment, he is notified of a very dangerous voyage he must
make to Hades. With Circe’s help, Odysseus must consult Tiresias the
prophet. Why? (see Books 10 & 11)
3. Book 11 – Hades
In Book 11, the shades/ghosts of many reveal themselves to Odysseus at
Acheron, the entrance to Hades. Before talking even to his mother
Anticleia, Odysseus makes sure to talk with Tiresias first. Then
Odysseus allows himself to talk to his mother and other famous Greek
women who appear. What is the significance to the plot of mentioning
these various Greek heroines (pp. 164-167)? As Odysseus continues to
tell of Agamemnon, Achilles and other famous Greek men, what does this
panorama of shades suggest about the Greek concept of Hades? of
Odysseus’ own fears?
4. Book 12 – Odysseus alone
How do the series of adventures in Book 12 (Sirens, Scylla, Oxen of
the Sun, Thunder & Lightning, Charybdis, Calypso) compare to the
series of adventures (Books 9-10) before Odysseus’ trip to Hades (Book
11)? Book 5 opens with Odysseus alone and Book 12 ends with Odysseus
alone. Now that Odysseus has come full circle in his flashbacks, what
is the relatonship between Odysseus and his crew? How are Odysseus’
feelings compounded by the lack of a crew?
13-16 Odysseus’ return to his native land, “reconciling” with Telemachus
5. Book 13 – Ithaka
In Book 13, Poseidon is not happy with the Phaeacians for conveying
Odysseus home safely. Given what happens to the Phaeacians in
response to Poseidon’s feelings, how is this action just? What does
Zeus think about it? Why does Zeus have anything to do with this?
Athena appears to Odysseus as he wakes up on his own island. What
part does she play in helping Odysseus? As clever as Odysseus is, why
would Athena’s help be necessary at this stage of the epic?
6. Book 14 – Hospitality revisted?
In what ways does Book 14 illustrate the ancient custom of
hospitality? How does hospitality in this chapter compare with the
hospitality of the Phaeacians (Books 8-13) or Nestor (Book 3) or
Menelaus (Books 4 & 15)? In Book 14, Odysseus tells two long tales
about both his origin and an incident with a cloak during the Trojan
War. His stories are inspired by Athena, the goddess of wisdom. How
does Odysseus balance the level of fiction with the level of truth in
his stories?
7. Book 15 – Piety
In Book 15, both Odysseus’ and Telemachus’ piety (i.e. duty to the
gods) is revealed in auguries (or bird signs). How do the auguries
support the intertwining of Odysseus’ and Telemachus’ lives? How does
Telemachus’ piety show with respect to Theoclymenus? How does
Eumaeus’ piety show with respect to Odysseus? According to Greek
thinking, is Telemachus’ and O
dysseus’ reunion left to chance in any
dysseus’ reunion left to chance in any
way? In many ways, this book is about origins. Why do you suppose
Homer chose this moment to unveil Eumaeus’ origin, Theoclymenus’
origin and even information about Odysseus’ father, Laertes and
mother, Anticleia? What do Eumaeus’ and Theoclymenus’ stories tell us
about nobility as an inner quality or characteristic of a person?
8. Book 16 – Telemachus and Odysseus
As dawn breaks at the opening of Book 16, Telemachus arrives safely to
the swineherd’s hut. Before the day is over, he will be re-united
with his father Odysseus. Having been only an infant when Odysseus
left for Troy, how does Telemachus recognize his father? Why then
does he still doubt his senses? (see pp. 245-246). How is Penelope’s
character defined in this book? Ignorant of Odysseus’ return, what do
Penelope’s actions reveal about her situation with the suitors? How
does Eurymachus’ pretending contrast with Penelope’s honesty about the
situation? By the end of the day, Eumaeus returns to his hut and
Telemachus asks about the plot against him by the suitors. How do
Telemachus’ and Odysseus’ pretending contrast with Eumaeus’ honesty
about the situation?
The American Conservative Blogs The Odyssey–And Likes It
Rod Dreher, a former columnist for the Dallas Morning News and author of one of the longest-titled books in publishing history, has been blogging his journey reading Robert Fagles’ translation of The Odyssey with his older son. We here at the Reading Odyssey are partial, of course, to Stanley Lombardo’s translation, but no matter; any curious adult who picks up and reads The Odyssey is okay with us.
In a post published today, Dreher explains how, the deeper he gets into the book, the more he comes to share the goddess Circe’s affection for Odysseus and his crew. They’re reckless like us. “Their follies are our follies,” he writes. Odysseus leads his men through a crafty plan to gouge the one eye of Cyclops but can’t help shouting from his escaping ship that it was he, Odysseus, who pulled off the feat. His need to bask in his glorious victory dooms him. Cyclops turns around and tells his father Poseidon, who promptly curses Odysseus to years of exile from his beloved Penelope. Dreher puts his finger on one of the central flaws of Homer’s hero (and a flaw certainly shared by the poet’s other great hero, Achilles).
The flaws of glory-worship come up again later when Odysseus is sent down to Hades by the sorceress Circe to consult with Tiresias.
Later on his trip down to the underworld, Odysseus meets Achilles, who in death has come to realize the trap of glory-seeking, saying “By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man—some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—than rule down here over all the breathless dead.” Dreher writes:
Check out Dreher’s series of posts at the American Conservative:
How To Read Signs (Sept 2)
Place, Person & The Odyssey (Sept 12)
Ah, My Darling Reckless Friends (Sept 24)
Here’s a response at the same site by another writer Alan Jacobs.
–Bruce Upbin
24. September 2012 by Arrian
Categories: Commentary, Homer-Odyssey | Tags: Homer, Homer's Odyssey, The Odyssey | Comments Off on The American Conservative Blogs The Odyssey–And Likes It