<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
<title></title>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
body{margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body marginleft="10" marginright="10" margintop="10" marginbottom="10">
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Thanks very much Pauline! I think the article is well written and Caroline Alexander's book looks very interesting and especially timely. I would add to this discussion, Jonathan Shay's book <u>Achilles in Vietnam</u>. Shay is a psychiatrist who interviewed many Vietnam War vets. He noticed patterns in soldiers' PTSD that were reflected in characters in the
<u>Iliad</u>. With the Iliad under my belt, I couldn't put Shay's book down once I started reading it. Homer is able to reflect basic human responses across 2000 years in both his Odyssey and Iliad. What a writer!</font></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Andre</font></div>
<br />
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><b><a href="mailto:homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org">homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org</a> writes:</b></font></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Hi all, </font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">In light of Veterans Day, this opinion piece appeared in yesterday's NY Times:</font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><b>Back From War, but Not Really Home</b></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">by Caroline Alexander</font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">A sense of dislocation has been shared by veterans returning from war since Homer conjured Odysseus' inauspicious return some 2,800 years ago.</font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08alexander.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=odyssey&st=cse" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08alexander.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=odyssey&st=cse</a></font></span></div>
<br />
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">We didn't get to discuss this aspect as much during our October session but it was touched upon in the questions prepared by Andre.  Thanks everyone and looking forward to next month's discussion.  </font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Pauline</font></span></div>
<br/>
<br clear="all" /><hr noshade="noshade" size="1" width="100%" color="#000000" style="color:#000000; visibility:visible; margin-top:0px;" />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:51:48 -0600</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">To: <a href="mailto:homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org">homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org</a></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">From: <a href="mailto:astipanovic@mail.hockaday.org">astipanovic@mail.hockaday.org</a></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Subject: [Homer2009-1] Odyssey Discussion Questions</font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"> </font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Hi fellow readers of Homer,</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Please let these study guide questions for Books 17-24 help you reflect on your reading.  You may want to wait to read over these until you finish the book if you don't like finding out about the ending too soon.  </font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">We will conclude our discussion of the Odyssey on Monday December 7 (1-888-350-0075; passcode:  1100494#) @8pm EST.  In the meantime, please feel free to send out your questions to me and to the group so we can keep the discussion going.  I have enjoyed our discussions so far and your questions!</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Also, please note that Stanley Lombardo will be live on Monday December 14, reading from his translation of the Odyssey.  This is an excellent opportunity to HEAR the epic (the Greek word "epos" means the uttered word) from a master translator and reciter.  Sign up online at Reading Odyssey.</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Best,</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">Andre</font></span></div>
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Study Guide Questions  - Discussion #3</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Books 17-24 Revenge</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">17-20 Odysseus and Telemachus return to the palace in imminent danger</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">1.  Book 17 - Omens</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">As Odysseus first sets eyes on his own palace after 20 years, what are the ways that he is tested by Athena?  How much restraint is Odysseus forced to show?  Why?  How do the two omens in Book 17 work with respect to each other (i.e. Theoclymenus’ prophecy and Telemachus’ sneeze)?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">2.  Book 18 - King of the Beggars</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">What does the fight between Irus and Odysseus symbolize/foretell?  Book 18 can be said to be important for Amphinomus, one of the suitors.  What part does he play in the rivalry between Odysseus and the rest of the suitors?  Why is his part necessary to the story?  Penelope’s timed appearance is significant here.  How does it heighten the mounting tension of the story?  How does Eurymachus’ quarrel with Odysseus at the end of Book 18 balance that of Odysseus’ fight with Irus at the beginning?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">3.  Book 19 - Tease</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">The reunion of Odysseus and Penelope is somewhat of a tease.  How is Odysseus able to hold back his feelings?  Is he testing Penelope?  If so, why should he?  Why is Penelope so steadfast against believing that Odysseus will come back?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">4.  Book 20 - Gods and Prophecies</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">For all of Odysseus’ cleverness and fortitude, he still requires encouragement to stick with his disguise until it is time for him to reveal himself.  At what two points do the gods respond to him?  How manifest are these divine responses to the situation at hand?  What is Odysseus’ main concern in Book 20?  What is Penelope’s?  How do these two differ, yet overlap?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">21-24 The contest of the bow and ultimate revenge on the suitors</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">5.  Book 21 - Contest of the Bow</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">With Athena prompting Penelope to announce the contest of the bow, the revenge on the suitors is set into motion.  How much of this plan is Odysseus in control of?  What is Penelope’s role in this overall plan?  What is Telemachus’ role in the plan?  Could the plan come together without Eumaeus’ or Philoetus’ help?  According to the text of Book 21, in what parts does Athena actively instigate events?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">6.  Book 22 - Anger Unleashed</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Although Odysseus’ anger is justified, shouldn’t he have taken Eurymachus’ offer for compensation after Antinous was killed?  Wouldn’t that have made sense in light of the family feuds and revenge killings that are sure to follow?  Why does Athena let Odysseus struggle in combat with the suitors for as long as she does?  Why does she show the “aegis” when she does, thereby making the suitors flee (p. 345), but not sooner?  In the midst of the killing, Leodes the soothsayer begs for mercy.  Leodes was the first to try the bow on p. 326 and foresaw this calamity, but Odysseus still kills him anyway.  Why?  Phemius the bard also begs for mercy, but he and Medon the herald are spared.   Why?  Are the punishments of
the serving women and Melanthius just or too harsh?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">7.  Book 23 - Aftermath of Slaughter</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Ironically, Penelope wakes up from a “sweet sleep” (line 17, p. 353).  Why is she now, all of a sudden, blessed with a “sweet sleep”?  Why does Penelope continue to hold back from believing that Odysseus has returned?  If Odysseus himself hadn’t killed the suitors, as she says, then who does she believe has killed them?  Why would this be frightening to her rather than happy?   How is Penelope finally convinced that this stranger is her husband?  Penelope finally recognizes Odysseus as her long-lost husband and Homer uses a simile to describe the moment (p. 360).  What does the simile show about the relationship between Penelope and Odysseus?</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">8.  Book 24 - Shades and Judgment</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Gautami" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Gautami;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Book 24 opens by recalling some of the shades in Hades we met in Book 11.  Some commentators say that Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ conversation is out of place here.  Is it or is it not?  Why does Odysseus continue to put on a false front with his father, even after the suitors have been killed?   Eupeithes, Antinous’ father rouses up the Ithacans against Odysseus.   What sort of threat is posed to Odysseus and his family?  Zeus makes an irrevocable judgment of the situation on Ithaca.  How does Athena respond to what Zeus says?  Why must Zeus throw a thunderbolt?  What does the situation on Ithaca show about the Greeks in general? about the Greeks at Troy?</font></span></div>
<br />
<br/>
<br clear="all" /><hr noshade="noshade" size="1" width="100%" color="#000000" style="color:#000000; visibility:visible; margin-top:0px;" />
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. </font></span><a href="http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9690331&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009" target="_new"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Learn more.</font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Geneva" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">_______________________________________________</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Geneva" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Homer2009-1 mailing list</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Geneva" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><a href="mailto:Homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org">Homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org</a></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Geneva" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><a href="http://readingodyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/homer2009-1_readingodyssey.org" target="_blank">http://readingodyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/homer2009-1_readingodyssey.org</a></font></span></div>
<br />
<br/>
</body>
</html>