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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have to second Andre’s recommendation of Shay’s
book. It is heartbreaking. I have a friend, Tom Palaima, who teaches
this book with the Iliad. He also compares it to Tim O’Brien’s
<i>The Things They Carried</i>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
homer2009-1-bounces@readingodyssey.org
[mailto:homer2009-1-bounces@readingodyssey.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andre
Stipanovic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Homer2009-1] Odyssey Discussion Questions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks
very much Pauline! I think the article is well written and Caroline
Alexander's book looks very interesting and especially timely. I would
add to this discussion, Jonathan Shay's book <u>Achilles in Vietnam</u>.
Shay is a psychiatrist who interviewed many Vietnam War vets. He
noticed patterns in soldiers' PTSD that were reflected in characters in the <u>Iliad</u>.
With the Iliad under my belt, I couldn't put Shay's book down once I
started reading it. Homer is able to reflect basic human responses across
2000 years in both his Odyssey and Iliad. What a writer!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Andre</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org">homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org</a>
writes:</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Hi all, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>In light of Veterans Day, this opinion
piece appeared in yesterday's NY Times:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Back
>From War, but Not Really Home</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>by
Caroline Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>A sense
of dislocation has been shared by veterans returning from war since Homer
conjured Odysseus' inauspicious return some 2,800 years ago.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'><a
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08alexander.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=odyssey&st=cse"
target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08alexander.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=odyssey&st=cse</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>We didn't get to discuss this aspect as
much during our October session but it was touched upon in the questions
prepared by Andre. Thanks everyone and looking forward to next month's
discussion. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Pauline</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:black' align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:51:48 -0600</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>To: <a
href="mailto:homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org">homer2009-1@readingodyssey.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>From: <a
href="mailto:astipanovic@mail.hockaday.org">astipanovic@mail.hockaday.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Subject: [Homer2009-1] Odyssey
Discussion Questions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>Hi fellow readers of Homer,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>Please let these study guide questions for Books 17-24 help
you reflect on your reading. You may want to wait to read over these
until you finish the book if you don't like finding out about the ending too
soon. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>We will conclude our discussion of the Odyssey on Monday
December 7 (1-888-350-0075; passcode: 1100494#) @8pm EST. In the
meantime, please feel free to send out your questions to me and to the group so
we can keep the discussion going. I have enjoyed our discussions so far
and your questions!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>Also, please note that Stanley Lombardo will be live on
Monday December 14, reading from his translation of the Odyssey. This is
an excellent opportunity to HEAR the epic (the Greek word "epos"
means the uttered word) from a master translator and reciter. Sign up
online at Reading Odyssey.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;
background:#D0D0D0'>Andre</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Study Guide
Questions - Discussion #3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Books 17-24 Revenge</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>17-20 Odysseus and
Telemachus return to the palace in imminent danger</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>1. Book 17 -
Omens</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>As Odysseus first
sets eyes on his own palace after 20 years, what are the ways that he is tested
by Athena? How much restraint is Odysseus forced to show? Why?
How do the two omens in Book 17 work with respect to each other (i.e.
Theoclymenus’ prophecy and Telemachus’ sneeze)?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>2. Book 18 -
King of the Beggars</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>What does the fight
between Irus and Odysseus symbolize/foretell? Book 18 can be said to be
important for Amphinomus, one of the suitors. What part does he play in
the rivalry between Odysseus and the rest of the suitors? Why is his part
necessary to the story? Penelope’s timed appearance is significant
here. How does it heighten the mounting tension of the story? How
does Eurymachus’ quarrel with Odysseus at the end of Book 18 balance that
of Odysseus’ fight with Irus at the beginning?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>3. Book 19 -
Tease</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>The reunion of
Odysseus and Penelope is somewhat of a tease. How is Odysseus able to
hold back his feelings? Is he testing Penelope? If so, why should
he? Why is Penelope so steadfast against believing that Odysseus will
come back?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>4. Book 20 -
Gods and Prophecies</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>For all of
Odysseus’ cleverness and fortitude, he still requires encouragement to
stick with his disguise until it is time for him to reveal himself. At
what two points do the gods respond to him? How manifest are these divine
responses to the situation at hand? What is Odysseus’ main concern
in Book 20? What is Penelope’s? How do these two differ, yet
overlap?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>21-24 The contest of
the bow and ultimate revenge on the suitors</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>5. Book 21 -
Contest of the Bow</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>With Athena
prompting Penelope to announce the contest of the bow, the revenge on the
suitors is set into motion. How much of this plan is Odysseus in control
of? What is Penelope’s role in this overall plan? What is
Telemachus’ role in the plan? Could the plan come together without
Eumaeus’ or Philoetus’ help? According to the text of Book
21, in what parts does Athena actively instigate events?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>6. Book 22 -
Anger Unleashed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Although
Odysseus’ anger is justified, shouldn’t he have taken
Eurymachus’ offer for compensation after Antinous was killed?
Wouldn’t that have made sense in light of the family feuds and
revenge killings that are sure to follow? Why does Athena let Odysseus
struggle in combat with the suitors for as long as she does? Why does she
show the “aegis” when she does, thereby making the suitors flee (p.
345), but not sooner? In the midst of the killing, Leodes the soothsayer
begs for mercy. Leodes was the first to try the bow on p. 326 and foresaw
this calamity, but Odysseus still kills him anyway. Why? Phemius
the bard also begs for mercy, but he and Medon the herald are spared.
Why? Are the punishments of the serving women and Melanthius
just or too harsh?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>7. Book 23 -
Aftermath of Slaughter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Ironically, Penelope
wakes up from a “sweet sleep” (line 17, p. 353). Why is she
now, all of a sudden, blessed with a “sweet sleep”? Why does
Penelope continue to hold back from believing that Odysseus has returned?
If Odysseus himself hadn’t killed the suitors, as she says, then
who does she believe has killed them? Why would this be frightening to
her rather than happy? How is Penelope finally convinced that this
stranger is her husband? Penelope finally recognizes Odysseus as her
long-lost husband and Homer uses a simile to describe the moment (p. 360).
What does the simile show about the relationship between Penelope and
Odysseus?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>8. Book 24 -
Shades and Judgment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:Gautami;color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Book 24 opens by
recalling some of the shades in Hades we met in Book 11. Some
commentators say that Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ conversation is out
of place here. Is it or is it not? Why does Odysseus continue to
put on a false front with his father, even after the suitors have been killed?
Eupeithes, Antinous’ father rouses up the Ithacans against
Odysseus. What sort of threat is posed to Odysseus and his family?
Zeus makes an irrevocable judgment of the situation on Ithaca. How
does Athena respond to what Zeus says? Why must Zeus throw a thunderbolt?
What does the situation on Ithaca show about the Greeks in general? about
the Greeks at Troy?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><br>
<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. </span><a
href="http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9690331&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009"
target="_new"><span style='background:#D0D0D0'>Learn more.</span></a><span
style='font-family:"Geneva","serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-family:"Geneva","serif";color:black;background:#D0D0D0'>Homer2009-1
mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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