[Xenophon] Laconic phrases

[Tim Reagan]

Xenophon group:

Here are some interesting side-readings particularly relevant to the  
situation in Athens, c. 440-390 BC:

1.  The Trial of Socractes, by I.F. Stone.  I haven't read this for  
many years.  It's a troubling book that attempts to lay a foundation  
to understand--if not rationalize--the execution of Socrates.  Stone  
makes the case that Socrates was much more closely identified to the  
state terror policies of The Thirty than we are led to believe,  
particularly by his pupil, Plato.  (Kritias was Plato's uncle).  There  
was a real fear of a return to power, not just by the oligarchy, but  
by its most extreme, murderous elements.  I.F. Stone, an old radical  
journalist, had a particular fear of the punishments of dissidents  
like Socrates, and, in retirement, set out to find out more about it.   
He learned classic Greek in his 70s, and changed his mind from his  
research.  Very provocative.  I intend to read it again.

2.  Picture This, by Joseph Heller.  Yes, the same Joseph Heller who  
wrote Catch-22.  Basically, this is a free-form discourse based on the  
Rembrandt painting, "Artistotle Contemplating the Bust of Homer."   
It's unconventional, and sometimes too wise-guy, and has Rembrandt  
arguing with not just Aristotle and Homer, but Plato, Alcibiades,  
Socrates,  and others, as if they were in one room together.    An  
imagined dialogue between Alcibiades and Socrates is very  
entertaining.  He covers much of the same ground as Thucidydes and  
Xenophon.

3.  The Trojan Women, by Euripides.  Euripides wrote this in 411, and  
it is a masterful imagining of the minds of the newly enslaved women  
of a vanquished and destroyed city.  Athens had recently done to the  
city of Melos what the Mycenean Achians had done to Troy--complete  
destruction of a city, the execution (murder) of all military-age men,  
and enslavement of the women and children.  Now Euripides was asking  
Athenians to stand in the Trojan shoes, as they would come close to  
doing in reality seven years later.  A marvelous DVD of the Michael  
Cacoyanis production, in English, exists, with Katherine Hepburn as  
Hecuba, Vanessa Redgrave as Andromache, and the great Irene Pappas as  
Helen.

4.  Xenophon's Retreat by Robin Waterfield, is an update analysis of  
Anabasis, the"Return of the 10,000," about the Greek mercenaries who  
accompanies Cyrus to Persia to press his claim to the throne, and had  
to retreat through a thousand miles of hostile territory, north  
through modern-day Turkey, fighting Persians and hostile tribes all  
the way. Waterfield personally followed the line of retreat and  
remarks on how it looks today.

Tim Reagan




On Mar 22, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Andre Stipanovic wrote:

> Dear fellow readers,
> Great discussion tonight!  Thanks to all of you for your  
> contributions.  I feel like we covered a lot of ground and made  
> quite a few inroads into Xenophon's narrative style and structure.   
> Good stuff.  Am looking forward to our next conference call on  
> Monday May 10 when we will be discussing Books IV & V.  Lots more  
> good stuff to come.  Meanwhile, make sure to listen to the podcast  
> if you weren't able to make the call tonight by going to the Reading  
> Odyssey website.  Also, enjoy the "laconic phrases" below.
> Andre
>
> Laconic phraseFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> A "Laconic phrase" is a very short or terse statement, named after  
> Laconia, an area of modern and ancient Greece. Due to the  
> militaristic traditions of the people of ancient Sparta, the most  
> important city in Laconia, the Laconians focused less on the  
> development of education,arts, and literature. Some view this as  
> having contibuted to the Laconian characteristically blunt speech.  
> The Spartans were especially famous for their dry wit, which is  
> called "laconic" after the region and its people. In modern  
> parlance, "laconic" is used to describe speech and writing which  
> uses few words and is terse and concise.
> Examples
> Spartan
> A witticism attributed to Lycurgus, the legendary lawgiver of  
> Sparta, is a response to a proposal to set up a democracy there:  
> "Begin with your own family."
> One famous example comes from the time of the invasion of Phillip  
> II. With key Greek city-states in submission, he turned his  
> attention to Sparta and sent a message: "If I win this war, you will  
> be slaves forever". The Spartans sent back a one word reply: "If".  
> Another version claims the famous exchange was: "You are advised to  
> submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land,  
> I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city".  
> Their reply was "If". Subsequently, Philip and Alexander both would  
> leave them alone.
> Demetrius I of Macedon was offended when the Spartans sent his court  
> a single envoy, and exclaimed angrily," What! Have the  
> Lacedaemonians sent no more than one ambassador?" The Spartan  
> responded, " Aye, one ambassador to one king."
> A Spartan king wanted his hair prepared, so he turned to his barber  
> and said, "Cut it." When he was asked how he wanted it done, he  
> answered "Short."
> When the Persians sent envoys to the Spartans demanding the  
> traditional symbols of surrender, offerings of soil and water, the  
> Spartans threw them into a deep well, saying that they would find  
> both at its bottom.
> On her husband Leonidas' departure for battle with the Persians at  
> Thermopylae, Queen of Sparta Gorgo asked what she should do. Knowing  
> he was unlikely to return, he advised: "Marry a good man and bear  
> good children."
> Herodotus wrote that when before the Battle of Thermopylae, Dienekes  
> the Spartan, was told the Persian arrows would be so numerous as to  
> blot out the sun. He responded with "So much the better, we shall  
> fight in the shade". Today Dienekes's phrase is the motto of the  
> Greek 20th Armored Division.
> When the Spartan King Leonidas was in charge of guarding the narrow  
> mountain pass at Thermopylae with just 300 Spartan men in order to  
> delay the invading Persian army, the Persian leader Xerxes offered  
> to spare his men if they gave up their arms. King Leonidas replied  
> "Molon Labe" (Greek "Μολών Λαβέ"), which translates to "Come  
> and take them." This has been re-used by generals and politicians  
> throughout history and repeated (in English) often in popular  
> culture. It is today the emblem of the Greek First Army Corps.
> On the morning of the third and final day of the battle, Leonidas,  
> knowing they were being surrounded, exhorted his men, "Eat well, for  
> tonight we dine in Hades."
> When asked by a woman from Attica, "Why are you Spartan women the  
> only ones who can rule men?," Gorgo (wife of Leonidas) replied:  
> "Because we are also the only ones who give birth to men."
> Spartan mothers or wives gave a departing warrior his shield with  
> the words: Συν ται η επι ται! or Ή ταν ή επί  
> τας!, "With it or on it!", implying that he should return  
> (victoriously) with his shield, or (his cremated body in an urn)  
> upon it, but by no means after saving himself by throwing away his  
> heavy shield and fleeing.
> When a hoplite described his comrade's brave death in battle, a  
> Spartan woman commented: "Such a noble journey; shouldn't you have  
> gone too?"
> Spartans normally fought with a shortsword. When its size was  
> mocked, the Spartan responded with, "It's long enough to reach the  
> heart."
> When a Spartan complained to his mother that his sword was too  
> short, she replied that it would be long enough if he took a step  
> forward.
> Upon being asked to come hear a person who could perfectly imitate a  
> nightingale, a Spartan answered, "I have heard the nightingale  
> itself."
> When asked what dowry she was giving her bridegroom, a poor Spartan  
> girl said: "My father's common sense."
> After an Athenian accused Spartans of being ignorant, a Spartan  
> agreed: "What you say is true. We have learned none of your evil  
> ways."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xenophon2010_readingodyssey.org mailing list
> Xenophon2010_readingodyssey.org at antioch.phillipsdata.com
> http://antioch.phillipsdata.com/mailman/listinfo/xenophon2010_readingodyssey.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://readingodyssey.org/pipermail/xenophon2010_readingodyssey.org/attachments/20100323/a0dfad4a/attachment-0002.html>