[Xenophon] Conversation with Paul Cartledge regarding Alcibiades

[Phil Terry]

Alexander,

Quite right - the controversy continues. I did ask Bob the same  
question and he had a similar answer to Paul.

Phil

On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Alexander J. Wei wrote:

> Dear Phil:
>
> Thank you so much for sharing your conversation about Alcibiades.  I  
> believe we touched on him in our talk with Bob Strassler as well.  I  
> even remember first hearing about him from a Social Studies teacher  
> in middle school.  I doubt controversy over him will ever die.
>
> Alex
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Terry <pterry at creativegood.com>
>> Sent: Jan 19, 2010 6:15 PM
>> To: xenophon2010 at readingodyssey.org
>> Subject: [Xenophon] Conversation with Paul Cartledge regarding  
>> Alcibiades
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I thought you would find this recent conversation I had with  
>> Professor
>> Paul Cartledge interesting. Paul is the A.G. Leventis Chair of  
>> Ancient
>> Greek Culture at Cambridge and one of the most well-respected
>> classcists in the world. He's also a board member of the Reading
>> Odyssey.
>>
>> I decided to ask Paul about Alcibiades and the difference between the
>> way Thucydides portrays him and the way David Thomas, the writer of
>> the Introduction to our edition of Xenophon's Hellenika, describes  
>> him.
>>
>> Some of Paul's answers require knowledge of the Athenian Wars (or the
>> Peloponnesian Wars as the Athenians called them). But, the basic gist
>> is understandable whether you have read Thucydides or not. Please  
>> keep
>> this exchange confidential.
>>
>> -- -- --
>>
>> Phil: What's your opinion of Alcibiades? David Thomas seems to take a
>> much friendlier attitude towards Alcibiades in his introduction to
>> Xenophon's Hellenika. His perspective seems quite a contrast to
>> Thucydides' point-of-view on him.
>>
>> Prof Cartledge: I'm with Thucydides - who at one point virtually
>> blames him altogether for leading Athens to defeat against Sparta,  
>> but
>> at another point does say that - for once - he did do at least
>> something good for Athens (in 411 when he persuaded the Athenian  
>> fleet
>> NOT to sail back from Samos to Athens to resist the anti-democratic
>> coup[1])!
>>
>> Phil: Why do you think David suggests Alcibiades' expulsion from
>> Syracuse is the main reason for the defeat of that ill-planned
>> expedition?
>>
>> Prof Cartledge: Alcibiades was the most gifted general of his day -
>> BUT his posturing on Syracuse was ill-informed and excessive and  
>> self-
>> promoting, and though Nicias was unduly cautious, he was right to be
>> cautious, whereas Alcibiades in 416/5 had talked gaily of - after
>> conquering Sicily (all of it) - going on to conquer
>> Carthage...Hyberbole! It was party politics that got him recalled  
>> from
>> Sicily but i. victory there was by no means certain even so and ii.
>> even a false accustaion does not justify outright treason (going over
>> to Sparta)! P
>>
>> -- -- --
>>
>> Hope you are enjoying your reading of Xenophon's Hellenika. Send
>> questions or thoughts out over e-mail!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Phil
>>>
>>
>>
>> [1] When Paul refers positively to Alcibiades' role in preventing the
>> fleet from sailing back to Athens to support the coup against the  
>> anti-
>> democrats, he's saying so *not* because he (paul) supports the
>> oligarchs but because that rash move would have left the Hellespont
>> completely open to the Spartans and been quite a mistake in the war -
>> it would have really hurt Athens to have done that no matter who was
>> in charge back at home.
>>
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